McCain's Only Hope

McCain's campaign manager even admitted that all McCain has to rely on is attacks, saying that for them, "This election is not about issues."
The McCain campaign is trying to distract voters from the real issues -- so let's focus on what they're trying to hide.
They've come out against the life-saving possibilities of stem cell research.
They don't even mention protecting equal pay for equal work.
They support huge tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% of Americans.
They've almost completely ignored the $10 billion we're spending every month in Iraq.
And they make zero exceptions for a woman's right to choose -- even in cases of rape, incest, or to protect the life of the mother.
If that all sounds like more of the same, that's because it is. John McCain is offering a third term of the disastrous Bush agenda, so it's no wonder his campaign would choose to focus on attacks instead of issues.

69 comments:

Simpleton said...

You're right on, and that RNC crowd looks so damn stuffy, so stuffy in fact that they can't realize they're more of the same OLD BS!

Nicholas said...

Actually John McCain is in favor of states decision for abortion laws and he has stated on record that he doesn't have a problem morally with abortion in the event of rape. His energy policy is also the polar opposite of typical conservatives, as is his immigration stance. Not that that's good enough reason to vote for him.

NabraskaPoet said...

a.d. .... u r so right on the issues....but if u will allow .... check out...http://mckinney2008.com/PRESIDENT/ only for those searching for truth.

Jason said...

Palin has spoken against abortion FOR ANY REASON. I do not like to get involved in that debate, because I don't feel ok with abortion, kharmically speaking, but I also don't feel ok with telling other people how to live and choose. McCain's camp is relying on the underlying and systematic racial biases of his constituency. They just can't openly say that.

James-Michael said...

Other than if the mother's life is in danger (which every pro-life legislative measure has always allowed for) should abortion be legal. Abortion is one of the last human rights abuses that our country continues to support. It is society saying that the lives of certain persons are not to be considered fully human. Anyone remember the 3/5ths law, Jim Crowe, colonial slavery?? I'm not a McCain supporter, but when it comes to the issue of protecting the rights of those in the womb, his stance is light years better than Obama's--who condones the right to kill life in the womb for any reason at all. This is the biggest blight on Obama's life and will have eternal ramifications. I pray his Christian faith one day works its way into his stance on this politically acceptable holocaust.

Ginger said...

Thanks for posting this, I will pass it on...
Can you believe what a joke McCain & McBush are?!?
We can not accept more of the same.

Obama for Change...
Yes We Can!

Anonymous said...

Huckabee, Guiliani and Palin RIPPED Obama a new one last night!

It was hilarious!

Vote for Obama so he can take more money out of your paychecks and force you to pay for some smokers health insurance who is killing himself at his own will.

Vote for Obama who wants to demoralize our troops by giving up on fighting Islamic Terrorists.

Vote for Obama who supports infanticide!

Vote for Obama who was friends with American terrorist Bill Ayers.

Vote for Obama who thinks government should dictate how you live.

Vote for Obama the Marxist.

Vote for Obama who thinks BIG government should be your nanny!

Vote for Obama who has zero experience governing anything.

Vote for Obama the "Community Organizer"

Hilarious!!!!

NabraskaPoet said...

very very true...check out ....http://mckinney2008. com/PRESIDENT/https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=9051242381207234857&postID=3126177368216770839&page=1
Blogger: OFFICIAL SPEECH BLOG - Post a Comment

Ryan H said...

amen

Gary said...

For many years I've avoided voting. I don't know why I think I just never thought I'd made a huge difference. Well after seeing what's happened and seeing how the Bush Administration handles America I decided to vote. I've watched most of the debates but I'm quite turned off by what McCain represents.

I have to say I appreciate all your bulletins with true facts because it's people like you who bring up the best points on both sides. Thanks again for keeping us informed, you guys are great!

Anonymous said...

For me it is tough. There are aspects to both candidates I like and dislike. I still have not decided yet. I wish I could take the good qualities of both candidates and make one great one. Politicians play on fears. All of them do! Even Abraham Lincoln did.

peace
jj

Jason said...

His religious beliefs shopuld have no bearing on his politics. As a representative of the people, on any level, his vote should only reflect what his constituents want. If he does not do that, he is not a proper representative of the people, and should be removed from office by and through any and all necessary channels.
I have long said that Bush is the PERFECT President, because he is a PUPPET...It is only that the WRONG PEOPLE are pulling his strings!!!

Misha said...

WORD!

Always love your writings!
Blessins,
Misha in Iowa

armando said...

AND ALL THE LEFT CAMPAIGN, MAINSTREAM MEDIA, POPULAR RAP STARS, ETC. HAVE THE SAME. ALL YALL HAVE IS MC CAIN = BUSH,
MC CAIN = BAD REPUBLICAN. BASH, BASH, BASH, AT EVERY CORNER FROM THE LEFT.

OBAMA HAS SAID WHAT HE WANTS TO DO, BUT HAS NOT SAID HOW HE'S GONNA DO IT OR HOW HE'S GONNA PAY FOR IT. DETAILS, SPEECH. I CAN SAY I WANT TO FLY TO THE MOON TOO. WHAT I FAIL TO MENTION, NOT UNLIKE OBAMA, IS HOW?

AGAIN, I LOVE U SPEECH BUT KEEP YOUR POLITICS OUT OF MY SPACE, I DON'T BRING IT INTO YOURS. I HAVE A MIND AND I CAN COME UP W/ MY OWN CONCLUSIONS ON WHO TO VOTE FOR.

I CAN SPREAD CRAP ABOUT YOUR CANDIDATE TOO, ALL OVER MY/YOURSPACE BUT I WONT. U HAVE A GREAT MIND TOO.

W/ ALL DUE RESPECT

Speech said...

Thanks for the compliment brother. I really appreciate it.

Armando, I'm not angry, nor am I bombarding you. I post this on the general bulletin to all my myspace friends. As a friend we all have our opinions, you can post yours too. But I won't stop saying mine, nor encouraging friends to vote for Obama. I'm fired up, and wanna spread my joy about it all! Delete me or don't open my bulletins that talk about politics.

Bo said...

..."And they make zero excep​tions​ for a woman​'​s right​ to choos​e -- even in cases​ of rape,​ inces​t,​ or to prote​ct the life of the mothe​r."...


what about the tens of thousands of women per year who use it as a means for birth control when contraceptives are FREE at clinics? as christians we should believe that life begins at conception, how should that be a woman's choice? just curious.

Speech said...

As a Christian, I do believe in having the baby, instead of abortions. But church and state are separate, and Jesus himself did not expect the Govt. to agree with him. There are many other atrocities other than abortions (ie:) violence, War, poverty, not showing favortism, all of which Jesus felt very passionate about as well!

Sp

Paul Moore said...

Speech man...I know you will probably not be able to read this or even have the time to respond, but I wanted to say that I was disappointed in this post. Normally you are really insightful and always make me think...but this felt like just a rehash of far left talking points and feels a lot like hate.

I am a conservative, republican Christian, AND I really love Obama. I take him at his word, and as I watched his convention...I didn't feel the need to spout out like some editor from the national review, because I believe he is genuine. Why can't you give McCain the same respect, love, and acceptance...even if he thinks differently than you.

It is so sad to see War protestors hitting Fox News reporters in the name of peace.

It is sad to see women spew hate at a fellow woman because she thinks 40 million dead babies (the greatest genocide of black children since the dawn of creation, btw) is wrong.

It is sad to see such intelligent people call the one republican who spoke out against Bush more than any other in his party is just another Bush clone.

But most of all, it is sad to see a man I really respect give in to the politics of hate and ignorance. As long as men like you give into the plebian rhetoric of politics rather then hearing people from the other side and giving them a chance to speak their mind, we will never find that day of peace we all long for. That is just my two cents. Crazy that after loving you music, poetry, art, and passion that this is the first thing I have ever disagreed with you on.

No matter what, Obama is a great man and his campaign to become president is going to be truly one of the greatest events of the modern age. I really respect your passion for him and your desire to defend him. Still, maybe McCain's only hope isn't the out of context sound bite you mention...maybe his only hope is that people will stop spiting their evil bush hatred at the TV and just listen to the man's heart...like I wish everyone would do with Obama.

I know where you are coming from. I hated Clinton the way you hate Bush. Then I realsied how wrong my hate was and in my heart. Maybe a lot of you on the left will have to resolve your hatred for a fellow man one day to. Be it Bush or now...apparently McCain.

OK - too long. Probably just working out my own throughts on the matter. No matter what - thank you for being so real - even when people like me might diagree. Keep fighting the good fight man. You are the best.

Speech said...

It's interesting that you say I hate McCain, cuz I sure never said that.
Nor did I bash him. I agree that it is sad to see violence in the name of peace. But that war protestor is not me, I'm Speech. A fired up Christian, and excited supporter of Barack Obama. And historically my people rarely vote in large numbers, so I'm hoping for a "change" that i can believe in! ;-)

Peace dude

SP

Paul Moore said...

Absolutely man, it felt like hatred to me, but maybe that is because I am preconditioned to thinking anytime anyone mentions Bush, they mean to hate him. I should have given you better respect than that and not assumed anything. I am sorry I wasn't clear that I wasn't talking about you when I metioned the protestors, abortion (your music has made so clear your love of both choice and life)and all the rest.

I could have been way off track, Speech, and I am sorry for that. Thank you for taking the time to answer me. I will simply never know what this election means to so many and I should consider that before I critique anyone. it was just a real change in tone from what I am used to, but given the stuff being slung at him - I understand your being fired up and contrasting McCain.

My prayer is that african americans come out in numbers like never before. My prayer is that the racism that permiate all over this land will be exposed. My prayer is that the hope that his first victory speech envoked in all of us will continue and grow.

I may not agree with you, but I am praying you are successful. Does that make sense? Thanks again man and keep fighting the good fight. You are doing a great work and can't come down...especailly to guys like me who press send before thinking about it. :(

Peace

Paul Moore

Speech said...

I really appreciate your response. What it shows me is that despite disagreeing about certain things we don't disagree on EVERYTHING. And that discourse and opinions shouldn't scare people but instead it helps us ALL to grow in our beliefs and compassion, love and character. Again, thanks for the dialog.


brother
SPEECH

Pat Kelly said...

Dear Speech,

My name is Pat Kelly. I was an intern at Vagabond for a short period of time, and enjoyed it very much. I never had the chance to meet you but wish I had. But the reason I'm sending this message is because I wanted to give a little feedback on a statement you made in your post. You said that McCain makes zero exceptions towards choice for women. Now, I know that you are a GOD fearing man...which is why this puzzled me little. You know that God does not make mistakes...this goes for unborn children as well. It is still murder. The murder of a child...a child of GOD. It doesn't matter how it happened...that is how GOD intended it to happen...and who are we to make that choice? The answer is NOBODY.

Speech said...

It's good to hear from you! ;-) Thank you for your work here at Vagabond and your response. I am a God fearing man. And yes I agree that God makes no mistakes. However, I also know that all Americans are Christian, and that we also have the death penalty which takes judgement out of God's all knowing hands as well. And many Republican states favor that penalty. i also know that our Lord, hates violence but our administration indirectly has killed thousands of people in the name of war, I also know Jesus says to give to the poor and bring justice to those without it. and many of the laws don't favor the average poor person instead the rich only. (Favoritism) which our Lord does not like. So it's a bit more complex than abortion only, sin comes in many ways and we all have to decide which ones we will fight against for the best efficiency.

armando said...

thnx for talkin striaght w/ me speech. i always have great respect for what u believe. i guess i was just venting. love u more then before. i will read all your post and take them to heart.

love u brother

Anonymous said...

Speech I think you meant to say that not all Americans are Christians....you said they were. I know you don't believe that.

Music maddness said...

I agree with you 100%!! OBAMA 08'!!

Speech said...

Thanks Armando, and everyone else too! I appreciate the talks we've had. (via internet) :-)

Much love to you too!

We live, vent, learn and grow. Then we die.



SP

Chewy said...

I personally think that people are scared of change. Let me rephrase that with a little more honesty.

I think that white people are scared of change and I am white!

If Obama was pure blooded white, we wouldn't even be debating over who's the best candidate for the presidency.

The man is promoting change and too me any change right now is better then anything the Republican party has to offer.

It kind of sickens me to see people who would rather vote for someone who would rather keep us stuck in the same situation, then vote for the right person, but they don't because of fear of change.

People should learn how to swallow their prides and do the right thing, even if it makes them a little uncomfortable.

I was talking to my mother today and she does not want Obama to be the president for the simple fact that his skin tone is a few shades darker then hers.

When you boil it down. This election is more about pride then it is about making the right decision.

You would think that Americans in general would learn from the past by now, build upon the many mistakes that have been made and move forward!

I'm tired of worrying about what kind of future is in store for my 4 year old son. Our decisions now will effect, not only his future, but the lives of everyone that is involved.

I'm sorry that I took this topic a little off coarse, but I felt my opinion should be heard.

God Bless America!

tbartel said...

McCain destroyed the old republican party today. He is an indepant. His veiw that we are all Americans makes race irrelovant. Issues are not important in this race. The inportance is getting a government back that is for the people and not for themselves. this is a revolution, one that includes all Amreicans. In the end, the American people will realize that voting for McCain is voting for Independance from this goverment for the people. I have seen Obama in Woodstock after his Senate win, and i saw McCain in 2000 before 600 people in bremerton washington , and it was in a total down pour. I voted for him in the 2000 Primary, i voted for Powell in 00 and 04. I am excited. and i exspect Obama to get a high cabinet appointment. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Obama votes for McCain. Either way i hopes this election destroys both parties.

JMS said...

Hey Speech,

I'm a long time fan (since '93) and have much love for you. I'm also a pastor. I agree that Jesus didn't expect the government to agree with Him, nor did Paul. But they also lived in a political system where they had no voice that mattered when it came to shaping the law.

I'm not a republican, and I generally dislike the religious right. But I have to say, on the issue of abortion-on-demand, if we continue to support people who so thoroughly support it, then we are no better than those who agreed with Wilberforce in Parliament but still voted to keep the slave trade legal because there were "other evils to worry about".

Sorry man, I just think this issue is one that followers of our savior cannot continue to turn a blind eye toward or continue to support those who do.

Which is too bad because I kinda like Obama in general. But voting for him, for a Believer, is like an abolitionist voting for a slaveholder in the 1800s.

Be blessed,
JMS

ps: drop by my blog "the discipleship dojo" if you ever wanna dialogue about other things of a controversial or biblical nature.

pps: Zingalamaduni is a serverely underrated album! I can't help think of "Warm Sentiments" while writing this... :)

speech said...

Thanks for the encouragemet! And for the support! remember Bush is also Pro-life. Yet abortions are still happening. Republicans Use this divisive issue every election, and it works! Comparing the issue to slavery, is too extreme to me. And yet, I am NOT pro-abortion. I know Barack isn't either.
As a Christian, I teach abstinence until married. That is a 100% God given solution to this issue. All else is man's versions of solutions after their persistent rebellion and disobedience.
However, we will get what we deserve this election. Just as we did the last 8 years. I know God is great & Jesus saves! All else, despite my passion, is still chasing after the wind. Ultimately futile.
Thanks & respect for you all for writing in.

DTM said...

Speech, Below is a list of facts about Obama/McCain, thought you might want to see them. Obama would be disatrous for this country! Look at the tax increases. If the outline below is not clear (I printed it from another paper, at the bottom of the page is references you can check.)
Honestly Speech, I think alot of people of color are voting for Obama because he is a man of color. I personally do not care about that. I look at the expereince. Obama has been in office 170 days as a Senator! He has no expereince or nothing to speak of. On the other hand Se. McCain and Governor Palin have a resume that speaks for itself. If Obama had that resume I would vote for him.
Hope you are doing well brother.
God Bless and Love you
Denise Miller
SIMPLE MATH:

2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS



ISSUE


JOHN McCAIN


BARAK OBAMA

Favors new drilling offshore US


Yes


No

Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it


Yes


No

Served in the US Armed Forces


Yes


No

Amount of time served in the US Senate


22 YEARS


173 DAYS

Will institute a socialized national health care plan


No


Yes

Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy


No


Yes

Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately


No


Yes

Supports gun ownership rights


Yes


No

Supports homosexual marriage


No


Yes

Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase


No


Yes

Voted against making English the official language


No


Yes

Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals


No


Yes

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN


0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA


28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN


15% (no change)

OBAMA


39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN
(no changes)


Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)


Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN


- 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA


Restore the inheritance tax
Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!

Speech said...

Thanks for the response DTM
but I nor the blacks i talk to are NOT voting for color reasons although Were all excited about that landmark and possibility.
I'm supporting him because i have been extremely frustrated about the last 8 years and i want change! I disagree about the taxes claims you state, although I fall in the bracket that will get more taxes, but I'm fine with it, cuz i know there will be tax cuts for my many friends and other poor who need it the most. So I'll take the sacrifice to do onto others what i would want them to do unto me.

These points don't agree with what Obama actually says himself. For instance Pulling out troops, Obama has made it clear he will pull them out as carefully as they were carelessly put in this war.

Obama agrees with off shore drilling but not as a true solution.

Judges have to interpret all of the time. It's part of being a judge. Or else we wouldn't need judges, just the law if it was that simple.

Serving in the armed forces is noble, but not necessary for being commander in cheif, in fact there is many cases one could draw that make NOT serving an asset to better leadership.

Obama does not SUPPORT abortion, he supports the womens right to choose, yet he like I and probably all people dispise abortion and feels we need to focus on lowering unwanted pregnancies, like the Republican vice presidents daughter, that wa an unwanted pregnancy. And as a nation we all have to figure out how to make youth understand the importance of abstinence.

etc etc. I have to go

but thanks for writing in.

SP

Denise Miller said...

Speech

I must say that I am surprised and dissapointed by your self righteous attitude about Sarah Palin's pregnant daughter.


Speech , I appreciate your responding to me, but before we further our discussion, I want to ask you a few questions. What do you think of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright? Rev Jim Wallace? and Bill Ayers?

I spend a lot of time a research finding out about all the candidates. I know that Obama's theme is "CHANGE" , but Speech, not all change is good. Socialism/communism is change? What do you think of socialism?

I hope to hear back from you.
God Bless :)

Denise Miller

Speech said...

Enough. These people are not Barack. And neither is socialism and communism. I can't believe people are still digging this extremism up still. Wasn't that cold war tactics?

It seems that you are a staunch republican (no matter what the results of having a republican administration). I respect your opinion regardless of what it is, and obviously I disagree. No hard feelings from my behalf. We all will get the candidate we deserve, by our votes in Nov.

Peace,

Speech

joe valles said...

Speech you blow me away bro...big time...

your the second true blue dyed inthe wool rock star to ask us to be friends on my space...and the 1st American Rockstar at that...

the honour of being ..1st to ask us to be friends goes to Alan Davey of Hawkwind from England..(bass player)almost 1 year ago...he is awesome we love his bands..and he really liked our music enough to mention us in some European music magz...

all the other rockstars on our myspace we have asked them to be our friends...so thank you kindly...

tells me volumes about you...and we respect you more because of it...what got you about us...??the..music..? the fact i have a radio show..? the art work..? or the fact all 3 of us our brothers..? ha ha ..plz advise...im gonna put you in our top friends...once you respond...

i grew to love that song Tennesse because we grew up poor Tejanos..as little kids...and when i was born in 1965.. i was almost born under a cactus patch along the rio grande river..but my dad got mom to the hospitol in time...after i was born ..i was raised in a shotgun shack..like the one in the Tennesse video...so i could relate..no running water...well water..outhouse ..the whole trip..we could relate..bit time...to the Tennesse video and its theme..when it came out ...

we were not migrants..my family was to damn proud to be mexican migrant workers..my family stuck it out here in South Texas with poverty only a weekaway back then..we grew up.. less than a mile from the river and border with mexico..so needless to say i know about picking cotten..in the sun..as a kid..(just once enough to learn how to do it..) and picking GREEN SQUASH...THAT WAS HEAVY...BUT AS kid i thought it was fun...and im one of the few that can say i swam in the river..before it got all polluted...the deadly Rio Grande River...
your song Tennesse struck a chord with us..growing up...it hit home hard...and i still live not far from those fields where i was under the sun...and close to that muddy river that borders 2 countries...

its an honour to be your myspace friend.. ill put you in my top friends...i wish you the very best...God has a FUNNY way of putting people in our path...again much success..as we are still struggling to get out there and we have been deadly close to success and brushes with the limelight several times..not bad for 3 tex-mex kids..who would swim in the rio grande river for fun..while others lost thier live trying to..cross it to freedom..life is funny...yet God gave us the talent to rock....

keep up the good vibes..and good work..

sincerely
texas joe valles

valles flying machine

rock on speech...

Anonymous said...

The American Communist Party supports Barack Obama. Tells you a bit more about his policies.

His voting record speaks for itself in the Senate. He IS a socialist through and through! If you read the communist manifesto and look at the Democratic plans they are almost identical. Read it yourself! It is no conspiracy. They use the same terms to describe things they have the same goals and lots of them are already implemented.

I am all for getting rid of Bush. He is a liberal too! However let us not choose Obama out of hatred for Bush. That is no way to vote.

Engrid Smith said...

Hello everyone,
 
Please do not believe the hype. this man McCain is Lucifer's father and he is out to get America. he is a liar and now is trying to separate himself from
Bush to win votes. Please pass this on....Remember do your research to help educate the masses....to make a change in Washington

Speech said...

Wow, this was a heated debate on McCain & Obama! I'm SO proud to be repping Obama a man of true change! I'm saddened by all the McCain Supporters. You are blind, if you don't see what this country has become! I think your views on this election are naive and in a few cases of those writing in, possibly racist. Race is playing a bigger issue in this election than many are letting onto. And shame on you for being so immature. Bush has taught you McCain supporters nothing, and that appalls me! Death, dishonor, lies, non of that phases you, that appalls me. The same ole' divisive "Hot Topics" (Abortion, protecting the country, gay marriage) republicans have used for ages to get elected.... STILL work! Despite the fact we've had republicans in office all these years and none of these changes & have happened! Are country ISN"T safer, etc... HELLOOOO! Wake up!

All this Socialist Crap... enough! You guys sound silly!

So anyway, I do respect YOU, but not your views on THIS issue. It's NOT personal, but just one dudes opinion. and as always thanks for writing in!

Anonymous said...

"Death, dishonor & lies" sounds like the perfect description of the last democrat President we had!

Not to mention the democratically led Congress who has the lowest approval rating ever! Their approval rating is worse than George Bush's! That is pretty pathetic!

Having a worse rating than Bush is beyond sad.

Chewy said...

Speech: I'm saddened by all the McCain Supporters. You are blind, if you don't see what this country has become! I think your views on this election are naive and in a few cases of those writing in, possibly racist. Race is playing a bigger issue in this election than many are letting onto. And shame on you for being so immature.

100% agreed! Like I said before, race is not a small part of this election, but a HUGE part!

Anyone who cannot see that is amazingly dense!

Why else would McCain choose a WHITE WOMAN for a running mate? People say to get Hillary's votes, but I disagree.

It makes the election about the first Black President or the first Female Vice President, nothing more.

You're giving the black vote what they have been longing for, for so long and the female voters get what they have been longing for in the same extent!

What McCain did was divide the votes. It's simple math because if McCain would of picked a man....white man at that.

He wouldn't have a shot in hell! If he would of picked a black man, he would of had to throw in the towel because all that would show is he is scared of what he is facing, and is willing to resort to whatever tactics to get the votes.

Obama is the best candidate this country has seen in quite awhile. It's amazing too me to see so many people in denial.

Speech said...

Don't even try it BUSTER! :-) Democratically lead congress JUST very recently! Most of his term had been republican run!

So no excuses about his horrible ratings. It's just all him and only him!

Anonymous said...

No excuse for Bush's ratings. He deserves the low ratings. He earned it himself and the Republicans don't deserve to win this coming election either. They have also done a horrid job!

However it is still utterly pathetic that the new Democrat led Congress is even worse than the Republican led Congress! Shows you just how lost our government as a whole really is!

Chewy said...

You got a nice little debate going on there! I'm the one posting as CHEWY(Long Story)! I agree with pretty much everything you're saying over their. Some of those comments are just downright mind boggling! I don't get....this country needs a wake up call...for real!

Chewy said...

You got a nice little debate going on there! I'm the one posting as CHEWY(Long Story)! I agree with pretty much everything you're saying over their. Some of those comments are just downright mind boggling! I don't get....this country needs a wake up call...for real!

RJ said...

This is just mind blowing. I sit here and read all the comments from both sides and I am in dibelief. Both sides seem to be very educated and very well spoken. But my problem with most everything being said is that so many seem to be filled with so much anger. In my experience, anger has never been the way to deal with an issue. You are right Chewy, this country does need a wake up call, you and me included. We can concider ourselves enlightened or whatever, but the problem I have is that everyone is slinging fear. We talk about change, but use the same fear tactics when talking about 8 more years of Bush. Fear.


I am also completely appaled when I hear people referring to the canidates as some satanic figure. I have now heard Sen. Obama compared to the anti-Christ and Sen. McCain refered to as satans father. More fear slinging. Just stop.

We need to focus on the issues. The debate on this board about abortion has actually been very intriguing to me (when it has remained about the issue). Many things I have never really thought about. Maybe if everyone here could put aside the same ol' party lines and focused on JUST the issue at hand, we could actually have the change we all so desperately desire. Compromise in America today is absolutely non-existant. It is either my way, or shut the F### up. The change I would like to see the very most is to have people work together to solve an issue. Why does it have to be either black or white (figuratively and literally), why not a little gray?

I like some of what both candidates have to offer. I dislike alot of what both candidates have to offer. But I will not make my decision based on fear!!

Sorry to bore with my ramblings!! I am not normally one to post my beliefs. But I felt strongly compelled to voice my opinion. I hope whoever is elected is the right person for the job, Weather or not it is who I vote for. Lord knows I've been wrong before. Probably just once or twice at the most, but it has happened!!

Thank you Speech for your music and this forum for my voice to be heard!

Peace

JMS said...

Thanks for answering my comment, Speech. I want to make it clear that I'm not a Republican and I don't condone much of what's happened under the current admin. However, I DO condone the appointment of Supreme Court Judges who are committed to protecting unborn life, which would not have happened had Obama been prez.

I don't see how you can dismiss the comparison to slavery though. Slavery was one group of humans deeming another group of humans less than human (3/5ths if they had to put a number to it!). Abortion-rights does the same thing by deeming one group of humans (those in the womb) less than human and therefore not given the basic right of all human rights--the right to life (much less liberty and the pursuit of happiness).

I know you love the Lord and I know you're frustrated, but we need more people like you, people with a voice, to stand up (no matter who they vote for) and say that the killing of children in the womb is full-on evil. It's justified and argued for on the basis of extremely poor logic and is morally untenable. As long as people (particularly culture-shapers such as yourself) continue to categorize it as "just another social problem", things will never change. I firmly believe that when all is said and done, both history and God Almighty will hold all Americans since 1973 who have not vehemently spoken out against this legal infanticide in the same boat as all those Germans in the 30s-40s who did not vehemently speak out against the evil that permeated their society.

As far as the Obama/McCain election, I simply cannot fathom how someone can bring such glorious change to this nation when he WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUPPORTS abortion-on-demand, even the horrific and unnecessary D&E (Partial-birth) procedure. Until Obama openly repudiates his full on support of "choice", he has no moral ground upon which to stand.

For all McCain's faults, he at least understands that the most vulnerable people in our society deserve to be protected from being killed in the name of "choice" (i.e. convenience). This doesn't mean I'm gonna vote for him; I still haven't made up my mind as to whether or not I'll do a write-in vote. But it does mean that he possesses the moral high ground on the most important issue of all--the issue of a person's right to life.

Blessings, man.
JMS

JMS said...

Hey rj,
I agree with your post above. Well said. Regarding the abortion issue in particular, I cannot recommend strongly enough that you check out www.abort73.com. It's a movement by predominately 20-40somethings of all political stripes who are committed to fighting the current widespread ignorance regarding the nature of abortion in this country right now. Please take the time to go there and at least watch the video stream. Just as people needed to see the full extent of devastation caused by apartheid in S.Africa, ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, genocide in Rwanda, and racist brutality in the American south, people desperately need to see what being "pro-choice" actually entails when it comes to real life individuals.

Peace,
JMS

tbartel said...

This is an amazing debate. This past administration has really polarized this Nation. I just hope we can see during the debates that we have more in common then not, and the issues that divide us can be settled in sober minded compromises, the type of witch lead to our Declaration of freedom and the establishment of this country's Constitution. May we not forget we are all Men created in God's image and i hope to further be amazed by our unalienable right of free speech and free ideals.

All in all, i think i am going to vote for Powell again :)

rj said...

JKS, i certainly will check that out! Thanks!

I am going to get on my high horse for a minute, so I appologize in advance.

A little over 2 years ago my wife was pregnant with our third child. During a routine ultrasound, it was discovered that our baby had spina bifida. We were then sent to a specialist in that field (high risk pregnancy), where we were presented with several different options. One of the options presented was abortion. Neither my wife of I ever concidered this for even a breif moment. But since her birth, I have often thought about those options. It is definately not without reason to believe somewhere, some time, someone has chosen to abort their baby in a similar situation. And it saddens me to no limit. My daughter is with out a doubt the greatest blessing that God could ever bestow upon me. She has changed my life for the better and made me become a better man. It could never be more evident that the Lord works in mysterious ways.

I can see how someone might want to abort because the conseption is under less than ideal situations. But I speak from the voice of experience when I say it shouldn't even be an option. The easy road is not always the best one.

tbartel said...

P.S.

when are you goin to post McCains speech so i can rip it as well?

Anonymous said...

tbartel said "This past administration has really polarized this Nation. "

The Democrats play just as big a role in polarizing this nation as Bush did. Actually Bush is just like the Democrats when it comes to spending and growing government. Fiscally he is a bleeding heart liberal!

I am surprised the Democrats don't worship him for that.

I just find it painful to sit through one of his speeches! LOL!

Speech said...

Enough of all these people who don't agree with ME!

(Just kiddin')

Anyway, I agree with the one dude who said, can't we all get along? I think we can! Especially if everyone would just agree with me! Gosh is that too hard! ;-)

(just kiddin' again)

OK for real, I will look more into the abortion thingy (read up on it), cuz I do feel it is VERY IMPORTANT!

I still don't vote for a president based on one issue alone, (Abortion) nor would I EVER vote for the McCain that is running now (for MANY reasons). And to the pastor that claimed Barack has NO moral claims to anything. I find that interesting considering even Mary Magdalene or the prostitute Rahab in the book of Joshua had some moral worth although she may had been a women of the streets. Or Paul had worth despite once authorizing the death of Christians.

I THINK Jesus MAY disagree with your carte-blanche approach to this one issue. Although I don't think he'd disagree with your passion for it. I agree with your passion as well.

Life isn't about one issue, its about many issues, sin being at the root of most and we all fall short in many ways.
It seems to me that the blame for the death of the child belongs to the people who chose to have the procedure done, more than the system or politician that allows it to exist. (Although I do see where the politician may not be innocent in the matter either) however, It's ultimately up to God, not us, to make the final condemnation.

Also, let me say, that as a younger man, I payed for two abortions for women I slept with, (I hate my decision now) and my wife had one earlier in her teen life. Are we condemned according to your views now? Or just like the person who lies or cheats on his taxes, we are in need of a shepherd that can teach us repentance and mercy. I sure think the latter. I'm taught that no sin is worse than any other (there's one exception - but that's another blog topic)

Anywhooo, I am PROUD to vote for Barack, despite some radical and sometimes ridiculous views against him.

Like for instance, the brother who said, look at Chicago and judged Barack based on that. What if we all judged 72 yr old McCain based on every 72 year old person that drives too freaking slow on the highway.
Maybe a few folks have been reading too many strictly right wing extremist blogs. (Just my opinion)
I love Barack's vision, reliance on HOPE instead of fear, and his viewpoint of political leadership... Not to mention a good deal of his plans for our country! YES WE CAN! And I believe we will! :-)

SPEECH

rj said...

Please don't get me wrong, as of right now, I do believe that Barack is my candidate of choice. And if it weren't for the abortion issue, I would probably be as passionate about him as you are Speech. I just thought I might have a little different perspective on the issue than most.

I believe that blessing definately present themselves in unfamiliar ways. What I have gone through with my daughter has been the most difficult thing I have ever done. But it has also been the most rewarding BY FAR!! I whole heartedly agree that abstainance is key. But it is also unrealistic to believe that the youth today is going to see that. We must educate them as best we can but also hold them accountable for the decisions they make. It is too easy in this day and age to dodge responsibility and get an easy out.

Anonymous said...

The Born-Alive Infants Protection Act which Obama fought against in the Senate states that any baby that has been born alive is to be legally considered a person. As such, she or he would automatically be granted full protection under the U.S. Constitution. Other existing laws require that newborns must receive medical attention as needed. Killing a born-alive infant would be considered murder. This seems like such an obvious ethical mandate that one wonders who could possibly be against it. Some might wonder why such a bill is needed; after all, it is the traditional function of medical staff to give a baby any needed care after it has been born. Similar state laws exist in most U.S. states. This is one area where Obama really disgusts me. He voted against giving babies medical attention who survived abortions. That says a lot about someones character!

JMS said...

Hey Speech, let me clarify one thing that I believe you may have misinterpreted me as saying. I'm NOT saying that Obama has no moral worth. Nor do I condemn those who have suffered through the horror of abortion (it destroys more than just the lives of the victims, it also leads to much more hurt and pain for those involved). As a pastor I've been blessed to give hope and encourage a number of people who have lived with the regret of abortions earlier in life and as an artist I even did a series of paintings about the grace and forgiveness Jesus offers to women who've gone through it (which you can see on my myspace artwork album at myspace.com/jms7327).

I want to make this clear because I'm not against PEOPLE who support abortion, I'm against ABORTION and its legality. Just as Wilberforce and other abolitionists were not against the people involved in the society that had legal slavery, but they were wholeheartedly against IT REMAINING LEGAL and saw it as a blight on the face of their nation.

What I DID want to say is that if Obama, or any pro-choice republican such as Giuliani for that matter, stands SO FIRMLY in favor of keeping abortion-on-demand (i.e. abortion where the life or health of the mother is not in danger) legal, then THEY FORFEIT the right to label any other issue as immoral because the issue of protecting INNOCENT human life at its most vulnerable stage is foundational to all other issues regarding other rights and injustices.

Please excuse my use of caps above, I am not "yelling", I'm simply using them for emphasis.

I'm encouraged to hear that you (and you too RJ) are going to look more into this issue. And again, I want to emphasize that I'm not partisan, nor am I a McCain supporter or an Obama hater. I think they both have tremendous leadership ability and have various strengths and weaknesses. I predicted a few months ago that Obama will be the next prez and if he is then I will pray for him as our nation's leader and welcome his leadership, recognizing that it is God who raises up ALL leaders in His sovereignty. But until Obama lets his professed faith in the Lord of life and prince of peace affect his support of state-endorsed genocide (over 20 MILLION victims since Roe v. Wade in '73, the majority of whom were female or people of color), I will be unable to respect him as a social reformer or morally upright leader. In my mind, he will be like Robert E. Lee during the civil war--a professing Christian who personally hated slavery, yet fought as hard as he could in support of the Confederacy that condoned it.

Anyway, enough sermonizing. Sorry, I am a pastor after all! Heh heh!

Speech, I've got nothing but love for you and the rest of the AD family. And I wanted to let you know that Heroes of the Harvest is probably my favorite album I've bought in a long time. Keep doin' your thing, man!

And if you're ever in Charlotte, come worship with us! www.gsumc.org

Blessings,
JMS
www.abort73.com <--for those who want to know more than the sound bytes or slogans...

Speech said...

That's why I love these blogs and discussions! JMS, I'm actually feeling you right now. I DO better understand your views and honestly, I am leaning more towards sharing them (to some extent) than I ever have been. My vote choice remains the same, (Obama) yet, our conversation and the humility within it, has caused my heart to be moved towards better discernment on this issue.

By the way, killing babies, nor oppression of people is not my area of undecidedness, (I fight against that) I think it has been the issue of WHEN a child is "alive" that has stumped my passion on the issue.

Again, thanks for your comments, and love of Heroes album, the group all appreciates you and the invitation to church is extended to you as well, if you are ever in Atlanta.

www.thegacc.org

your brother,
SPEECH

not quite said...

God, I hope Obama wins. I'm having a debate in my blog. I still can't believe there are people out there who want to give Republicans the office again.

Anonymous said...

Barack Obama says that John McCain and Sarah Palin are lying about their records when dubbing themselves as the "original mavericks" who would stand up for hard-pressed voters.

Fine, Obama, you want to back that up?

Let's start with John McCain, who has a 100% approval rating on pork-barrel spending for the 2007 legislative season, according to Citizens against government waste. His lifetime score is 88%. What this basically means is that in 2007, John McCain voted with the taxpayers 100% of the time. This means that over his years in the Senate, John McCain voted with the taxpayers 88 out of every 100 votes. And when I say "with the taxpayers" I essentially mean he voted in a way that would allow taxpayers to keep their money, rather than spend it on frivolous government pork projects.

Just in case you weren't aware, Mr. Obama ... you scored a 10% rating in 2007 and an 18% lifetime rating. Oh and your running mate, Joe Biden, he actually managed to score a 0% rating in 2007. These really seem like a pair of guys that are trying to create change in Washington. These really look like the people who are looking out for you, the taxpayers.

But then it is John McCain and Sarah Palin who are lying.

When it comes to Sarah Palin, we've been through the specifics on this Bridge to Nowhere crap. In fact, the Democrat Party in Alaska acknowledges that it was Sarah Palin who finally scrapped the bridge. That website, by the way, disappeared for a while, until pressured to re-post the page (which they did, only at a different address). But just as a little side note ... guess who DID vote for the Bridge to Nowhere. Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Why doesn't the media bring THAT to your attention. Even when given a second chance to shift the funds to Katrina relief programs, Obama and Biden still voted for the Bridge to Nowhere. While John McCain did not end up voting on the amendment, he is on record opposing the earmark.

When it comes to Sarah Palin's record of reform ... let's just look at earmarks, since this is something that Palin and her Senate opponents have in common. Before Sarah Palin's time as governor, the state of Alaska used to request over 100 earmarks each year to be secured by Alaska's congressional delegation. When it came time for Sarah Palin to request her earmarks for the first time as governor ... she slashed that number by half, requesting 54 earmarks. The next year, Palin cut that number AGAIN down to just 31 earmarks. Of those 31 earmarks, 27 of these are continuous or were previously appropriated. When Palin entered the governor's office, the total amount of quests averaged $550 million a year. That number has been reduced to less than $200 million now that Palin is in office. And it would only continue to decline. One of Palin's stated goals as Governor is to ask Congress for no more than a dozen earmarks for her state. On top of all that, Palin insisted that each earmark requested by the state of Alaska demonstrate an important federal purpose and public support. Whenever possible, Palin wants to have earmarks only if they can be matched by state or local budgets. And her administration is currently re-examining previous decisions on transportation earmarks ... the Alaska Department of Transportation is conducting an audit to determine the status of every single one of its recent earmarks.

Let's go ahead and take a look at Barack Obama's earmarks in the Senate. In just three years, Barack Obama has requested over 300 earmark projects totaling $740 million. For the 2008 fiscal year alone, Obama requested 112 earmarks. Sarah Palin? 31.

Just a little something for you have mulling around in your brain as Obama gets all huffy about earmark spending. Sarah Palin actually cuts earmarks, Barack Obama says he supports earmark transparency and then requests almost $1 billion of your tax dollars to be spent on pork projects. Sarah Palin reduces the number of projects, reduces the costs, calls for projects that will only serve the nation as a whole, investigates previous earmark spending ... and yet she is the one "lying."

Remember this about The Chosen One Barack Obama. He is a creation of the corrupt Chicago political machine. Several times during his legislative career Obama has had the opportunity to speak out against and vote against the corruption in Chicago politics. Each and every time he failed to do so. He's a charlatan; a phony. When it came to corruption in Chicago politics change was the furthest thing from his mind. The sooner some of you people get the stars out of your eyes, abandon your childish celebrity worshipping, and see this man for what he really is the safer our country will be.

JMS said...

Hey Speech,
Cool, man. I'm not trying to get anyone to change their vote necessarily. I believe we (Christians, at least) are called to ground ourselves in God's revealed Word and the life-changing power of the Gospel and then seek to live out that Gospel in the society in which we find ourselves placed. In our case it means voting for the candidate who we feel will most likely bring the highest level of good to this country and ultimately to this world. And because we all have differing perspectives, experiences, cultural conditions and desires, we will not always agree on which candidate will best exemplify Godly secular leadership ("Godly secular" sounds like an oxymoron, I know, but I think you know what I mean).

I personally see flaws with all 4 of the main players in this game. For me--where I'm at right now, given what I believe grieves God's heart regarding "the least of these"--I cannot see a more grevious error in human judgment than someone supporting, even fighting to maintain, the right to take a life that God already knows as it is being "knit together in the womb", to borrow the language of the prophet Jeremiah. This is why I pray that Sen. Obama (or possibly Pres. Obama) will experience a true transformation of the heart regarding this injustice and our society's blindness to it. This issue is particularly troubling right now because, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Sen. Obama is in favor of witholding medical care for babies that end up surviving abortions--i.e. after the child is burned with the saline solution and pulled out with pincers, if it is still alive, the doctors should be allowed to simply discard it as medical waste. This is a position that is common among the most ardent proponents of abortion-on-demand (N.O.W., Planned Parenthood, etc.), but I'm hoping that I have my facts wrong on this and that Obama recognizes this for the evil it is.

As you can see, I am much more passionate about this issue of abortion-on-demand than I am about the other issues in our current politics. Not that they are all unimportant! I just see them as "specks" compared to this "plank" we have in our national eye right now. I would like to recommend two books to you as you continue your seeking of God's will and discernment on this issue. Both opened my eyes to things I did not know or had not considered before and I've yet to hear refutations for all of the points they raise: 1. "Politically Correct Death" by Francis Beckwith (http://www.amazon.com/Politically-Correct-Death-Answering-Arguments/dp/0801010500/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221360345&sr=8-1)

and
2. "Pro-life Answers to Pro-choice Arguments" by Randy Alcorn (http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=37519&netp_id=210236&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW&view=covers)

Thanks for the invite to GACoC; perhaps I'll one day be able to take you up on it...though given my occupation, Sundays are a bit hard to travel on... ;)

Be blessed, brother!

JMS
gsdisciple.blogspot.com

ps: "Lost Soldiers"...easily my favorite track on Heroes! Every hip hop fan should hear it!

SPEECH said...

OK,

I don't vote because of one issue only. I vote PROUDLY for Obama, because #1.) I am surrounded by friends and neighbors who are hurting deeply from this administrations policies! Obama is about helping 95 percent of the nation cut taxes. He's about more fair laws that will help keep people out of the prison systems, he will help mend the Horrible relationships and reputation we have throughout the world. (I travel a Lot)
I understand peoples passion on stopping abortions. It's obviously a divisive issue to say the least. (Meaning it divides the country every election) Which honestly makes me upset! Because basically every Republican promises the results you are looking for on this issue, but after 8 years of BUSH, (A republican) where are we with it?

Does not all the deaths here and abroad from this unnecessary war mean anything to you?
All the unfair tax laws that penalize the poor and excuse the rich, does that fair fine in your morality test?

Corporations making billions off of predatory loans, forcing average hard working Americans to lose homes, many times under that stress, wrecking marriages, hurting children! Does all of that fit fine with you?

Education being unfair and unbalanced, poor kids destined to cyclical poverty and hopelessness, is that fine by your pro-life friends seemingly heightened morality!

Pro-gun stances even (machine guns and criminal assault rifles) are a Repubulican hot button issue! In my community, these guns are falling into the hands of children and older dummy's that are literally blowing each other up on the city streets, but that issue to Pro-lifers is not enough to make their moral meters perk up at all! Thus they protect the right to have these types of guns, knowing that they are supplied and sold to inner city gang members and drug dealers!

I have heard some call all ANY ISSUE that's not abortion simply dust in the eye of America and the abortion issue is the only plank in the eye of America. I think it's because Pro-lifers have become so narrow sighted in the injustices of this world, they they have also become blinded by their own cause!

And I am a Christian, I am fine with stopping abortions. I hate them!

However, this ONE issue tends to ignite people to vote for an other wise horrible candidate, that supports literally 90% of the Bush policies! After he is elected, (if he is) let's see what he is actually able to do to help your one cause. If he doesn't do it, then shame on Americans, who have been bamboozled yet once again, by the ole "Abortion issue".

SPEECH

JMS said...

I feel your frustration, Speech. You're criticizing the Republican party for hypocrisy and narrow mindedness. Since I'm not Republican, I can agree with these critiques. But don't you think that instead of pointing out other evils doesn't justify supporting those who (proudly) uphold others? This is my conundrum every election year. But in my heart I can't vote for someone who supports legal genocide, no matter how bad the other candidate is...thus I'll often end up writing in a candidate rather than being forced to choose between two evils.

All Obama would have to do to get my vote is stand up against abortion-on-demand. But unfortunately, he's too dependent on his allegiance to the Democratic party to oppose the one issue where they are unquestionably on the wrong side of a severe human rights violation. And when someone fights to promote the taking of innocent lives (whether it's the war mongers on the right or the abortion proponents on the left), they lose the ability to make moral pronouncements in my eyes.

That being said, I won't be upset if Obama wins. He'll certainly improve our international image and will probably have some great educational initiatives. He's definitely a much better orator than McCain and is definitely cooler (hello, fist-bump!). But I can't help but fear that 90% of the "change" rhetoric is mostly just that...rhetoric. He is part of the Capitol Hill gang, after all. Senators (whether they're named Obama or McCain) are notorious for keeping the status quo...and voting for higher salaries for themselves. I guess I'm just cynical.

Blessings,
JMS

SPEECH said...

I love having these talks with you JMS, cuz at least you're intelligent about it. You can see my frustration dripping off the page! :-)

My (proudness) in supporting Obama is not based on someone allowing the killing of babies. Again, I disagree with that practice.

None the less, I think we all come from different perspectives (and that's fine.) Let me explain mine...

NOT voting or even "writing in a candidate" is NOT an option for me, a black in America, who only 139 years ago was NOT allowed to vote at all!

We've seen this country perpetrate atrocities towards us that are too serious to simply not vote because we disagree with certain parts of both parties policies. That is a luxury that I CANNOT AFFORD!

The things I mentioned that are other evils: (guns, war killings, jail, HIV, education injustice, etc.) are too close to home for ME to ignore them, in order to make a "statement" at the polls. That too is a luxury that I cannot afford.

Most registered black voters likely feel the same as I do on this issue. Although you may be surprised to hear that many blacks disagree with abortion, and agree with no sex before marriage, and monogamous marriages! BUT there are cultural ill's that plague the black community that DO NOT plague most white communities.

And these cultural truths prey on our values and neighborhoods at alarming rates.

The statistics and ratio's of whites to blacks in these areas show the urgency of correcting these ill's for blacks and minorities.

I do think however that YOU can afford to "not vote" or what have you. Many of the things that you may take for granted (as a white man in America) are not things that I can take for granted. I must be involved!

Our "inalienable" rights have been conditional far too often.


I'm NOT saying EVERYTHING is about race, but when some say NOTHING is about race that's naive and simply wrong.

Speech

Reelphat said...

Speech,
I'm honored to make acquaintance with you again(met you several years back in Cleveland and Pittsburgh via Rick Ward.)

I wanted to thank you for opening up this discussion. People NEED to exchange dialogue in order to expand their individual views on current issues and how they affect others.

Having said that, I am wondering....WHY is it so hard for Pro- lifers to get the real point? Correct me if I'm wrong but, the point being, "at NO time in THEIR lifetimes has ANY republican made good on stopping abortions and held true to their campaign allegiance towards the pro-life stance."

I'm a Christian. I AM pro-life. I'm a minister of music/organist at my church, my mother is a minister and I even have a gospel group....been serving the Lord a long time. I'm not perfect but, I DO have a personal relationship with the Lord. It frightens me to read this blog and see pastors.....PASTORS and other Christians trying to make this election & their choice of candidate about abortion WHILE, choosing to ignore the fact that NO candidate that they've EVER voted for has done anything in favor of pro-life. I wholeheartedly agree with you, man. Unfortunately, there seems to be this contingency of folks who think that "voting for the pro-life candidate will make God pleased with us and the church." Uhhhhhh, no. The church has it's own issues to work out and almost NONE of them have ANYTHING to do with the candidate for Presidency. That's just being and keeping it REAL.

Someone mentioned that McCain has been a U.S. Senator for 22 years....oh yeah, that's right!!! I remember ALL the news clippings, video footage and bills he initiated in Congress to change laws on abortion....yep...right there...22 years of truth to support John McCain's stance. Whatever on that "McCain's record and policy is better than Obama's" non-sense. That dude's record includes saying that Putin was the president of Czechoslovakia. How about when Tim Russert read him an excerpt from an opinion on invading other countries, McCain wholeheartedly disagreed with the opinion only to get owned by Russert when Tim told him that they were his very OWN words concerning Bosnia? Or how about his running mate overtly LYING about the bridge to nowhere? But, I am SURE the pro-lifer's dig the lies & deceit the McCain camp throws out...AS LONG AS, they are yelling "pro-life."

Geesh....folks are right at the cusp of idiocy these days. Wake up, America! Life IS an issue....but, there are some issues concerning those who are already born, too!

Sorry for taking up so much space, man...

Love to you, brother
Jody

JMS said...

I hear you, Speech. I do think there are very important racial issues that come in to play and I'm not naive enough to tell everyone to "be colorblind".

I know that most black Americans oppose abortion-on-demand...that is why I get so grieved at the fact that so few who have public platforms actually come out and voice this to the party that assumes all black Americans are on their side. If black leaders showed as much passion and hatred of institutionalized genocide as they do against institutionalized racism and oppression, the Democrats would be forced to come to grips with this issue and oppose the ultimate injustice of killing persons while they grow in the womb. This is one reason why leaders like, for instance, Tony Evans, impress me so much. They are willing to speak out passionately in favor of all human rights. I feel that you are among the few individuals in our culture who are committed to Jesus who could actually make a HUGE difference in cultural perception of abortion-on-demand, just as you and AD have done with racial injustice for the past 2 decades. If you conscience is not troubled by voting for someone who is so in favor of abortion-on-demand remaining legal then vote for him...but in doing so, continue to cry out to him and others in the Democratic ranks to stop their support of this evil.

As for me, I don't vote for a write-in candidate to make a statement. I do it because a democracy is built upon voting for who you think best represents you. When neither candidate represents me, and there is no other option, I must vote according to my conscience. To not do so would be sin (Rom.12-14).

But I really do understand your points about having to do something with your vote about issues that are disproportionately present among the black community (and to a lesser degree, other minority communities in this country). Most white people like to say "I understand...I have black friends...I feel your pain...blah blah blah" when we both know that's not true. However, God saw fit to have me raised in the inner-city of Savannah (Hitch Village projects if you're ever down there!) where my Dad was the pastor of a church where my sister and I were among the handful of white kids. As a result, I was introduced early on to issues of race and daily realities that my friends faced that for some reason (I now know why!) I did not.

All that to say that I'm passionate about issues of racial injustice, latent bigotry, naive "white guilt", and institutional oppression. (Why do you think I became such a huge AD fan after hearing "3 years, 5 months.."?? ;) But I'm just as passionate about educating people to include abortion-on-demand among them, and at the top of the list of institutional cultural evils in our country. Those leaders in the struggle against the other evils in our society who sit by silently and avoid speaking out against abortion-on-demand in order to stay unified with their party of choice will have to appear before our LORD and account for their complicity in perpetuating it.

So support Obama, get others to support Obama, fight for the change that Obama is promising...but, like Esther, use the platform and influence God has blessed you with to influence Obama and others in his party to oppose legalized genocide masquerading as "choice".

Anyway, I too enjoy discussing this with you and, in addition to being a little star-struck (lol!), am continually impressed by your passion and commitment to our Savior. Politics aside, we stand unified in our overall allegiance...and for that I give thanks to God. :)

JMS

JMS said...

Jody,
I'm afraid you've misunderstood me (I assume I'm the PASTOR you are referring too! :). While I'm not a Republican, in the past I have voted for Republican candidates in various positions who have put forth pro-life legislation (only to have it vetoed by Democratic Presidents or joint efforts by Democratic and moderate Republican senators and house members). I've voted for candidates who've spoken out against and voted against partial-birth abortion and underage abortion. So I'm not sure what exactly you are talking about when you say that "no pro-life candidate" has ever "made good" on their promises. I don't have any illusions that a pro-life president can end abortion-on-demand in this country...but one who wholeheartedly supports it sure as heck can't.

At the end of the day, I don't want to be like the Germans who stood by and said nothing about the evil in their midst or the Rwandans who stood by and allowed their neighbors to exterminate others of a different lineage or my fellow southerners who tolerated the Jim Crow water fountains and their white-hooded relatives. I believe with all of my heart that abortion-on-demand is every bit as horrible (and in terms of sheer numbers, much more damaging) as these other historic injustices. Therefore, for me to NOT oppose it with everything I have, is simply not an option.

This election doesn't make or break this issue, nor will it solve it. But it does provide a national opportunity to unmask this societal evil and educate others to stand against it and include it among their list of things that need to "change".

Blessings,
JMS

Reelphat said...

JMS,

I totally feel you, my friend. I honestly do. The problem is, this has been an issue for MANY years. The opportunity for it to be "unmasked" was the same statement that people used in the two elections where Bush won.

You appear to be a HIGHLY intelligent gentleman so, let me ask you this: If this issue CAN be unmasked, wouldn't it be more fruitful for the church to make it an issue for people to pay attention to ALL the time and not just every 4 years? As well, being a part of the "church," I see a possible solution being that the church could actually look to make a difference locally and have it grow. For instance, if churches of various denominations could ban together and actually work towards making a difference on this issue at a local level, would there be a greater chance for change?

Does the church, or you individually, oppose bars and drinking with everything you have because of the damaging effects of drunk driving and the many people who die from it or domestic violence due, in part, to alcoholism? How about the evils of racism and it's damaging effects? Guns that fall into the hands of unlawful citizens?

I agree with your analogy pertaining to the Germans(as we shouldn't sit back and not be involved) but, don't you ALSO think that it is inevitably naive for members of the church to base their vote solely on this issue? Better yet, from a moral standpoint, can the church afford to condone a pro- life habitual liar?

To be quite honest, I think you(the church) could get more accomplished dealing with a leader who is prone for change and actually listens to the constituents, as opposed to, banking on a candidate who will tell you anything to make you feel like he's in your corner but, will leave you high and dry after election day.

Besides, pro- life won't be the biggest issue any of us face if McCain does what he has been talking about and decides to get into it with Iran.....we'll have to worry about how long before somebody pushes the red button. Family values and the issue of abortion starts in the HOME, NOT the White House.

Blessings to you too, my friend.

~Jody

JMS said...

Jody,
I don't disagree with any of what you just said. I'm not a supporter of McCain, nor are many evangelical Christians I know, including within my own church!

I also agree that churches should focus on opposing abortion-on-demand 100% of the time rather than every 4 years. This is why we support things like crisis pregnancy centers, adoption, foster care, mentoring, sex-education, etc. This is why I constantly point people toward non-partisan organizations that oppose abortion and educate about it such as

www.abort73.com

or

www.feministsforlife.com

It's not a partisan issue. The only thing that makes it become a partisan issue to many people is the fact that one party officially endorses it and one party officially opposes it.

The most fitting analogy I can think of is this. Imagine you are an abolitionist living in Georgia the late 18th century. Slavery is an entrenched social reality that many people have come to accept as a sad fact of life. Nothing looks like it will change any time soon. There are two candidates running for president. One of them shares your views on slavery and promises to try to fight for abolition, but you disagree with most of his other views on domestic and international issues. The other candidate agrees with your views on pretty much every issue...except he is a slave-owner and supports the rights of slave-owners whole-heartedly because he doesn't consider slaves to be fully human, and because there are too many other societal issues he thinks we should address.

My question is, as an abolitionist--someone passionately committed to ending the slave trade and who constantly tries to show people the evils of it year round--regardless of whether or not you would vote for the abolitionist candidate, could you honestly in good conscience vote for the slavery proponent? I could not. Their core view of human life (evidenced by their endorsement of slavery) goes against everything I stand for and makes all their other ideas and positions pale in comparison.

That is how I feel every election year. I don't really like the Republican candidates, but I can never vote for the Democrat candidates because they support something deeming one group of people (those in the womb) not fully human and therefore not protected by the most fundamental human right.

I HATE the fact that McCain is associated with war-mongers like John Hagee. Likewise, I HATE the fact that Obama believes doctors should have the right to discard babies who survive the abortion procedure as "medical waste." How can I in good conscience vote for either?

This is why I am independent. This is why I sometimes choose to write in a candidate who represents me rather than give tacit endorsement to those perpetuating large-scale evils.

Thank you for this dialogue. Be blessed, my friend.

JMS

JMS' old roomie said...

I have really enjoyed reading all the comments on this page. THanks JMS for pointing me over here. I understand Speech that you are voting based on all the issues. I don't understand thinking that McCain is always lying and that he is going to continue Bush's policies just b/c Obama says he will. Let's talk about all the issues.

Taxes:
Obama says he will cut taxes for 95% of Americans. First 33-43% of Americans don't have to pay taxes. So his plans is to give them tax credits. I know this sounds good and noble but this is socialism. He is going to take more from those that have worked hard to earn what they have and give it to many who are dependent on the government. I believe we should take care of the poor as we are commanded by Jesus but I believe it is the individuals responsibility not the governments to redistribute wealth. Also he plans to increase capital gains and corporate taxes which will cripple this already hurting economy. As pointed out earlier is that Obama has only voted with the taxpayer 17% of the time. He also plans to drastically increase spending on all his programs that sound good but are not the government's responsibility.

Bush's tax cuts were instrumental in preventing this economy from crashing after 9/11 and the reason it has been so resilient during war time and now through this financial crisis. Although I agree Bush has so increased gov't spending that we are deeply in debt.

McCain will continue these tax cuts and he plans more importantly to cut corporate taxes 10% which will create more jobs and prevent many corporations from sending jobs overseas due to are high corporate tax rates


Foreign Affairs:

I don't think there are many differences here. They both plan on drawing down troops in Iraq as allowed. They both are going to send more to Afghanistan. Both are going to try to deal with Iran with sanctions (which by the way will not work but is worth the attempt). I think it is in our countries best interest to protect us from terrorist threats. Iran won't be the one to fire a nuclear bomb at us but they will provide terrorist with these weapons who have every intent on using them against us.

Health Care
This is a major problem I agree but I don't think the solution is a nationalized program that will cost the taxpayers dearly. It has also been proven time and time again to provide less than optimal health care. The problem is the rise in health care costs. The answer is to get more competition into the industry and crack down on the insurance industry which is responsible for a lot of the increased costs.
I don't think either candidate has a solution for this.

Obviously there are many more but this post is already too long. I don't like hearing people spout out democratic talking points without looking at the facts. I know both sides do it which i think is ridiculous. I wish they both would just go over each issue and tell us there plan.

Obama is an inspiring person no doubt but i just think his policies would be bad for our country especially his economic policies which is probably the most important issue right now(besides the responsibility to protect life, i feel ya JMS).

I am a conservative and McCain was definitely not my first choice of a representative but given the two choices now I would have to cast my vote for him.

Bring on the lashings,

CRC